im just new here, and im glad i found this forum, and i wonder, what do you think about Astrology and other holist / esoteric 'sciences'
i believe in astrology, as an esoteric science, true it isnt has precise as fisics, but still http://www.astro.com can make a personal profile very accurate and its only computers ..
a fisics professor i have, really makes funny of those things so i tried to explain to him, that if fisics have showed that even the smallest particule influences others, and toughts must exist in some kind of physical 'dimension', a tought..must exist beside electric impulses in the brain, so why cant planets far away influence these toughts and the human psique? i thk it makes sense...
What credit do you give to astrology ?
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What credit do you give to astrology ?
by donpeyote on Fri Jan 20, 2006 13:31
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by Philipp on Fri Jan 20, 2006 14:58
Of course stellar bodies, most evidently the sun and the moon, influence our physique and mind. But the whole concept of astrology is grotesque. The word itself is an oxymoron, since astroLOGY dismisses the scientific method. The century-old "wisdom" astrology is built on is not only outdated and/or wrong, it is a most amazing potpourri of logical fallacies.
I strongly suggest you read a couple of serious books on astrophysics, philosophy of logic and psychology. That should get you rid of any positive feelings towards esoterics
I strongly suggest you read a couple of serious books on astrophysics, philosophy of logic and psychology. That should get you rid of any positive feelings towards esoterics
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by donpeyote on Fri Jan 20, 2006 15:43
i thk that this over-intelligence and racional capabilities overindulge the esoteric sciences...for example, i got a wave on my back, doing bodyboard, and i where with alot of back pains, i tried some medics but still i had sometimes i had like litle pins on my back...i went to a holistic treatment, where my girlfrieds mother, who has lupos, and the doctor said she had +/- 8months of living, started to go to..10years ago, she still goes..
and she made me a japonese thechnic, massage, well knowed, but i cant remenber now, and never after that day i had back pains, only the usual :p
the problem with these things is something like what i eard from an astrologue, people go to the astrologue they deserve...and thats the problem with it, i didnt trust much those things, still i liked all that kind of philosophy, but its difficult do understand it
its not rational, nor its always the same result so i understand why 'intelligent' racional ppl would try to push down these kind of things, usually they prefer numbers, they can count on them
well i guess you can see my opinion about it
btw Philipp if you know your exact time, date and place, create your own astro data em http://www.astro.com and check it out, just for fun...
and please dont say that ' its so general it fits all persons '
and dont misunderstad me, i love math, astrophysics etc, but ...aaa..these ocult sciences have an important role the world, its a more subtle science i guess, more 'natural' maybe
and she made me a japonese thechnic, massage, well knowed, but i cant remenber now, and never after that day i had back pains, only the usual :p
the problem with these things is something like what i eard from an astrologue, people go to the astrologue they deserve...and thats the problem with it, i didnt trust much those things, still i liked all that kind of philosophy, but its difficult do understand it
its not rational, nor its always the same result so i understand why 'intelligent' racional ppl would try to push down these kind of things, usually they prefer numbers, they can count on them
well i guess you can see my opinion about it
btw Philipp if you know your exact time, date and place, create your own astro data em http://www.astro.com and check it out, just for fun...
and please dont say that ' its so general it fits all persons '
and dont misunderstad me, i love math, astrophysics etc, but ...aaa..these ocult sciences have an important role the world, its a more subtle science i guess, more 'natural' maybe
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by Philipp on Fri Jan 20, 2006 20:18
Let me restate my opinion.
That something has been widely believed for centuries does not make it true. Man are prone to believe in things because they "stood the test of time", but that is not a scientific criteria. In the case of Astrology, it can not change the fact, that there is not a shred of evidence supporting astrology and horoscopes beyond an effect known as self-fulfilling prophecies.
Similarily, very few alternative medecines have any positive effect beyond placebo. For instance, I have no doubt that homeopathics cured many people. But it was not for the miraculous effects of ultra-potent globuli, but the simple belief of those taking them, and the therapeutic dialogues with the homeopathic doctor, that helps people get in touch with their body and feel safe. The very same applies to any form of treatment that tries to capture and redirect your "energies" etc etc. They definitely work, but not for the pseudo-scientific theories their advocates try to sell.
Furthermore, I do believe esoteric teachings have value. For one thing, they give people purpose in life, guidance, and colorful abstractions for natural phenomena they can not comprehend otherwise. But that an idea appeals to us does not make it true let alone science. Astrology, for instance, is a rationalization of the irrational. In other words: groundless assumptions wrapped in complex numbers and formulae do not become wisdom.
That something has been widely believed for centuries does not make it true. Man are prone to believe in things because they "stood the test of time", but that is not a scientific criteria. In the case of Astrology, it can not change the fact, that there is not a shred of evidence supporting astrology and horoscopes beyond an effect known as self-fulfilling prophecies.
Similarily, very few alternative medecines have any positive effect beyond placebo. For instance, I have no doubt that homeopathics cured many people. But it was not for the miraculous effects of ultra-potent globuli, but the simple belief of those taking them, and the therapeutic dialogues with the homeopathic doctor, that helps people get in touch with their body and feel safe. The very same applies to any form of treatment that tries to capture and redirect your "energies" etc etc. They definitely work, but not for the pseudo-scientific theories their advocates try to sell.
Furthermore, I do believe esoteric teachings have value. For one thing, they give people purpose in life, guidance, and colorful abstractions for natural phenomena they can not comprehend otherwise. But that an idea appeals to us does not make it true let alone science. Astrology, for instance, is a rationalization of the irrational. In other words: groundless assumptions wrapped in complex numbers and formulae do not become wisdom.
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by B S Alessi on Fri Jan 20, 2006 22:39
If Pluto influentiate us, why not Pluto's moon Charon, it's two newly discovered moons, the Halley comet, 2003UB313 and another Kuyper belt objects, Alpha Centaury and the nearest stars, Andromeda Galaxy and the local group or galaxies, the Virgo supercluster, or the Quasar 3C273?
This is only one of the several questions astrology does not offer a response and that' s why I really don't believe in it.
Astrology has only a limited interest for the historian of science or may be for the psychologist standpoint (as ufology - just said Carl Sagan).
This is only one of the several questions astrology does not offer a response and that' s why I really don't believe in it.
Astrology has only a limited interest for the historian of science or may be for the psychologist standpoint (as ufology - just said Carl Sagan).
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by donpeyote on Fri Jan 20, 2006 22:50
Sloi, its not that kind of cheap newspaper astrology, its interpreted for just when you where born, try to check the Forecast, to see long term influences, etc
if you like you can download WoW , World of Wisdom, its just like that site but its more usable, you can set to dynamic analisis and check for example what it says 3 or 4 years ago, to see if in anyway it makes sense to you...
i really use it like somekind of tool, sometimes im sure it has that placebo effect, but still, it helps understand a little bit of the world around us.
phillip i really enjoy attempt to 'convert' ppl,or atleast make them say maybe, good discussions..and you have pointed out some very important issues, and i dont know anything about Astrology, besides interpreting the interpretations so i cant really defend astrology...
and about redirecting energies, reiki,etc. why not? science cant explain everthing, 85% of the universe is made out of something physics and cosmologist dont know almost anything about...
once my girlfriend had a pain the foot, and only with her hands, without touching her, she felt the nerve 'jumping' into place...and stull like i felt her hands in my back, warming a place i have in my back where my bones arent trully stright, maybe from bad sitting, heavybackpacks etc, and i never told her about it, and the didnt touch my back, just some months later after my incident in water, and i was feeling these warm when the says you can get up, and i tought, but you are still 'rubbing my back' when i looked she was sitting on the desk like 5mt away...
once when he was alone with me doing something, testing the 'sphongyrics' something like that, they put some small tubes with some essence, and cristals and bang with a 'diapason'(from latin, dont know the word in english) and he was looking and some book and talking to him self ' hmmmmm bloked in frequency 12' like he was trying to show me that wasnt no voodoo, or magic, but science(in some extension i guess)...and this 'sphongyrics' works like this, he puts some essences in your hand and then he sees how the 'body' reacts to it, so in a way, he doesnt choose what we need but our body does, body..spirit, the higher I, whatever...
if you like you can download WoW , World of Wisdom, its just like that site but its more usable, you can set to dynamic analisis and check for example what it says 3 or 4 years ago, to see if in anyway it makes sense to you...
i really use it like somekind of tool, sometimes im sure it has that placebo effect, but still, it helps understand a little bit of the world around us.
phillip i really enjoy attempt to 'convert' ppl,or atleast make them say maybe, good discussions..and you have pointed out some very important issues, and i dont know anything about Astrology, besides interpreting the interpretations so i cant really defend astrology...
and about redirecting energies, reiki,etc. why not? science cant explain everthing, 85% of the universe is made out of something physics and cosmologist dont know almost anything about...
once my girlfriend had a pain the foot, and only with her hands, without touching her, she felt the nerve 'jumping' into place...and stull like i felt her hands in my back, warming a place i have in my back where my bones arent trully stright, maybe from bad sitting, heavybackpacks etc, and i never told her about it, and the didnt touch my back, just some months later after my incident in water, and i was feeling these warm when the says you can get up, and i tought, but you are still 'rubbing my back' when i looked she was sitting on the desk like 5mt away...
once when he was alone with me doing something, testing the 'sphongyrics' something like that, they put some small tubes with some essence, and cristals and bang with a 'diapason'(from latin, dont know the word in english) and he was looking and some book and talking to him self ' hmmmmm bloked in frequency 12' like he was trying to show me that wasnt no voodoo, or magic, but science(in some extension i guess)...and this 'sphongyrics' works like this, he puts some essences in your hand and then he sees how the 'body' reacts to it, so in a way, he doesnt choose what we need but our body does, body..spirit, the higher I, whatever...
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by Sloi on Sat Jan 21, 2006 02:08
I've tried every kind of new age treatments and none have worked. Let me reiterate the last portion of that sentence: not one has cured me of an aching back and other 'fun' problems. Curiously enough, everyone in my entourage coming into the treatments with the belief that it would work, came out cured. I wonder why ?
If you don't think, you can stay alive only by being a parasite on the thinking of others.
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by donpeyote on Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:00
sloi, obviously you dont want to be cured, sometimes To Accept, or the lack of it may be a motive.. im really not the right person to explain whatever
try any book from Luise L. Hay, i bought in the other day The Power Is Within You( i bought for me, but really i intend to lend it to as many people i can, my mom reading it now :p ) i know, all these titles are a little too obvious, i always tought this kind of books where a little to.. i dont know...chessy?..i liked more of the fantastic books from Carlos Castanheda and others, but if you are, i dont know...open minded to it?..
in luise hay books she suggests a nice therapy sloi, every night write in a small paper i want my back to be healed, and put it under your pillow, or, everyday in the morning say one or two times vigorously to yourself " I Want to be healed ", but you have to mean it of course.. if you can do that, and really mean that, with your full being, i thk theres a nice possibility, you might even try that, but after some days you stop and say...ahhhh that will never work, something like that..
i love the carl sagan episodes/documentaries, i like to see them sometimes, they inspire me, and yes he didnt liked much of astrology, well he tought there is a message from god inside Pi... maybe because astrology didnt had in mind the presence of these moons, its not that precise, who knows, and maybe today they just dont have enough knowledge to 'insert' these moons..or not consider important...i really dont know, i started with Astrology, but there are far better 'convincing' stuff in this world, for example reiki, yoga, etc. Astrology might be one those that maybe...cant get any lower.. but still i thk it deserves some credit, others like reiki etc at least for me have full credit..
reejis, well i read some of the aspects, and they might work for me too..so who knows, i like it, dont take it too serious, but some stuff really gets right, i like the Forcast, or the long term influnces...and also great, the Partner is great, just ask your girlfriend date time and place of birth, its nice to get that data in first date, it might tell if the sex will be great
by the way anyone here is adept of Macrobiotics ?
try any book from Luise L. Hay, i bought in the other day The Power Is Within You( i bought for me, but really i intend to lend it to as many people i can, my mom reading it now :p ) i know, all these titles are a little too obvious, i always tought this kind of books where a little to.. i dont know...chessy?..i liked more of the fantastic books from Carlos Castanheda and others, but if you are, i dont know...open minded to it?..
in luise hay books she suggests a nice therapy sloi, every night write in a small paper i want my back to be healed, and put it under your pillow, or, everyday in the morning say one or two times vigorously to yourself " I Want to be healed ", but you have to mean it of course.. if you can do that, and really mean that, with your full being, i thk theres a nice possibility, you might even try that, but after some days you stop and say...ahhhh that will never work, something like that..
i love the carl sagan episodes/documentaries, i like to see them sometimes, they inspire me, and yes he didnt liked much of astrology, well he tought there is a message from god inside Pi...
maybe because astrology didnt had in mind the presence of these moons, its not that precise, who knows, and maybe today they just dont have enough knowledge to 'insert' these moons..or not consider important...i really dont know, i started with Astrology, but there are far better 'convincing' stuff in this world, for example reiki, yoga, etc. Astrology might be one those that maybe...cant get any lower.. but still i thk it deserves some credit, others like reiki etc at least for me have full credit..
reejis, well i read some of the aspects, and they might work for me too..so who knows, i like it, dont take it too serious, but some stuff really gets right, i like the Forcast, or the long term influnces...and also great, the Partner is great, just ask your girlfriend date time and place of birth, its nice to get that data in first date, it might tell if the sex will be great
by the way anyone here is adept of Macrobiotics ?
- donpeyote
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by Sloi on Sat Jan 21, 2006 19:56
I can assure you that I have no desire to remain 'in the company' of such aches; perhaps the difference between you and I is that I enter such treatments with no expectations, leaving it all to the 'professionals'. In any case, it has failed to work so I feel no obligation to believe...
If it works for some, it's certainly not for the advertised reasons.
If it works for some, it's certainly not for the advertised reasons.
If you don't think, you can stay alive only by being a parasite on the thinking of others.
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